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	<title>Comments for Combinatorics and more</title>
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	<link>http://gilkalai.wordpress.com</link>
	<description>Gil Kalai's blog</description>
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		<title>Comment on Oz&#8217; Balls Problem: The Solution by navid</title>
		<link>http://gilkalai.wordpress.com/2013/05/17/oz-balls-problem-the-solution/#comment-9432</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[navid]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 May 2013 19:30:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gilkalai.wordpress.com/?p=10280#comment-9432</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here is another nice and related test for your intuition that has recently been discussed online. 

Imagine you have n balls in a bag that are colored from 1 to n.  At each turn you take one ball uniformly at random from the bag and then a second uniformly at random from the remaining balls which have a *different* color to the first. You then color one ball the color of the other and put them both back in the bag. 

What is the expected number of turns before all the balls have the same color if:

 1. You always paint the first ball the color of the second? Or...
 2. You always paint the second ball the color of the first?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is another nice and related test for your intuition that has recently been discussed online. </p>
<p>Imagine you have n balls in a bag that are colored from 1 to n.  At each turn you take one ball uniformly at random from the bag and then a second uniformly at random from the remaining balls which have a *different* color to the first. You then color one ball the color of the other and put them both back in the bag. </p>
<p>What is the expected number of turns before all the balls have the same color if:</p>
<p> 1. You always paint the first ball the color of the second? Or&#8230;<br />
 2. You always paint the second ball the color of the first?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Test Your Intuition (21): Auctions by Josué Ortega</title>
		<link>http://gilkalai.wordpress.com/2013/05/18/test-your-intuition-21-auctions/#comment-9426</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Josué Ortega]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 20:43:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gilkalai.wordpress.com/?p=10288#comment-9426</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I will read it carefully later, but I must say that I enjoy your posts a lot. They cover many subfields and the intuition questions are quite interesting. Cheers from Vienna!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will read it carefully later, but I must say that I enjoy your posts a lot. They cover many subfields and the intuition questions are quite interesting. Cheers from Vienna!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Test Your Intuition (17): What does it Take to Win Tic-Tac-Toe by Test Your Intuition (21): Auctions &#124; Combinatorics and more</title>
		<link>http://gilkalai.wordpress.com/2013/03/15/test-your-intuition-17-what-does-it-take-to-win-tic-tac-toe/#comment-9425</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Test Your Intuition (21): Auctions &#124; Combinatorics and more]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 20:26:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gilkalai.wordpress.com/?p=9656#comment-9425</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] Once again this is a game-theory question. I hope it will lead to interesting discussion like the earlier one on tic-tac-toe. [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Once again this is a game-theory question. I hope it will lead to interesting discussion like the earlier one on tic-tac-toe. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Taking balls away: Oz&#8217; Version by Douglas Zare</title>
		<link>http://gilkalai.wordpress.com/2013/04/27/taking-balls-away-oz-version/#comment-9415</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Douglas Zare]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 May 2013 17:53:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gilkalai.wordpress.com/?p=10154#comment-9415</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[http://mathoverflow.net/questions/130845/blue-and-red-balls-puzzle

There is a simple martingale argument which shows that if there is a scaling law as n^c, then c=3/4. I don&#039;t think this is in the paper noah links, although that has some other nice ideas and precise results.

Suppose that when there are r red balls and b blue balls, you bet r to win b that you will remove a blue ball next. The total value accumulated from (n,n) to (r,b) does not depend on the path. You must have lost n, n-1, ..., n-r+1 and won n, n-1, ..., n-b+1. If you end up with k balls, you have accumulated +-k(k+1)/2. 

When you make a fair bet of r to win b, this contributes rb to the variance. The total variance is between roughly (1/2)n^3 (winning n times straight) and (2/3)n^3 (alternating wins and losses). If you end up at roughly +-n^c(n^c+1)/2, and the variance is proportional to n^3, then 4c=3, and c=3/4.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://mathoverflow.net/questions/130845/blue-and-red-balls-puzzle" rel="nofollow">http://mathoverflow.net/questions/130845/blue-and-red-balls-puzzle</a></p>
<p>There is a simple martingale argument which shows that if there is a scaling law as n^c, then c=3/4. I don&#8217;t think this is in the paper noah links, although that has some other nice ideas and precise results.</p>
<p>Suppose that when there are r red balls and b blue balls, you bet r to win b that you will remove a blue ball next. The total value accumulated from (n,n) to (r,b) does not depend on the path. You must have lost n, n-1, &#8230;, n-r+1 and won n, n-1, &#8230;, n-b+1. If you end up with k balls, you have accumulated +-k(k+1)/2. </p>
<p>When you make a fair bet of r to win b, this contributes rb to the variance. The total variance is between roughly (1/2)n^3 (winning n times straight) and (2/3)n^3 (alternating wins and losses). If you end up at roughly +-n^c(n^c+1)/2, and the variance is proportional to n^3, then 4c=3, and c=3/4.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Taking balls away: Oz&#8217; Version by noah</title>
		<link>http://gilkalai.wordpress.com/2013/04/27/taking-balls-away-oz-version/#comment-9413</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[noah]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 May 2013 13:42:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gilkalai.wordpress.com/?p=10154#comment-9413</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This problem was solved by Kingman at the University of Bristol, UK.  http://www.maths.bris.ac.uk/research/stats/reports/2001/0124.pdf in 1999 has a summary and improvements/extensions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This problem was solved by Kingman at the University of Bristol, UK.  <a href="http://www.maths.bris.ac.uk/research/stats/reports/2001/0124.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.maths.bris.ac.uk/research/stats/reports/2001/0124.pdf</a> in 1999 has a summary and improvements/extensions.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Taking balls away: Oz&#8217; Version by ameyerowitz</title>
		<link>http://gilkalai.wordpress.com/2013/04/27/taking-balls-away-oz-version/#comment-9408</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ameyerowitz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 May 2013 01:27:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gilkalai.wordpress.com/?p=10154#comment-9408</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Since a(200,400)=55.603 and $200^{3/4}=53.183$ (and similar results) $n^{3/4}$ looks pretty believable.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since a(200,400)=55.603 and $200^{3/4}=53.183$ (and similar results) $n^{3/4}$ looks pretty believable.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Taking balls away: Oz&#8217; Version by ameyerowitz</title>
		<link>http://gilkalai.wordpress.com/2013/04/27/taking-balls-away-oz-version/#comment-9407</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ameyerowitz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 May 2013 00:40:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gilkalai.wordpress.com/?p=10154#comment-9407</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[make that (t^2-2n+1)/(2t)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>make that (t^2-2n+1)/(2t)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Taking balls away: Oz&#8217; Version by Aaron</title>
		<link>http://gilkalai.wordpress.com/2013/04/27/taking-balls-away-oz-version/#comment-9406</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aaron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 May 2013 00:38:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gilkalai.wordpress.com/?p=10154#comment-9406</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There are probably good reasons for all the $n^{3/4}$ answers so I&#039;d vote for that based on majority rules. BUT if I was answering it myself then I would make a wild guess of $O(n^{1/2}).$  for reasons   given below.

Note that there is an easy recurrence so the problem can be solved numerically for any fixed n. Call the case of r red out of t total balls (r,t) and let a(r,t)  be the expected   number of balls left when we arrive at (0,a) (by  convention swap   the  colors   when needed to  maintain 2r&lt;=t) then we move from (r,t) to either (r,t-1) or (r-1,t-1) with probabilities r/t and (1-r/t) respectively. 

The ODE dr/dt=1-r/t seems relevant.  An initial condition of r(2n)=n is no help but we do know that the first step (up to color switch) takes us from (n,2n) to (n-1,2n-1) and with that as an initial condition I get r(t)=(t^2-2n+1)(2t). Then solving r(t)=0 for t yields $\sqrt{2n-1}.$  The numerical  data does seem higher than this though.

As I final note, this reminds me of the amazing article The Toilet Paper problem by Donald Knuth October 1984 in the American Mathematical monthly http://www.jstor.org/stable/2322567.
Two kinds of people, one who always removes the majority color and one who always removes the minority color are represented in ratio p:1-p  If we start out with n of each color , how many will be left when one color is depleted? I was mildly scandalized that the problem story involves big choosers and little choosers who take a square of toilet paper from one of two available rolls in a certain stall. So that&#039;s what they mean by applied math! The math is breathtaking as well and maybe there are ideas to exploit.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are probably good reasons for all the $n^{3/4}$ answers so I&#8217;d vote for that based on majority rules. BUT if I was answering it myself then I would make a wild guess of $O(n^{1/2}).$  for reasons   given below.</p>
<p>Note that there is an easy recurrence so the problem can be solved numerically for any fixed n. Call the case of r red out of t total balls (r,t) and let a(r,t)  be the expected   number of balls left when we arrive at (0,a) (by  convention swap   the  colors   when needed to  maintain 2r&lt;=t) then we move from (r,t) to either (r,t-1) or (r-1,t-1) with probabilities r/t and (1-r/t) respectively. </p>
<p>The ODE dr/dt=1-r/t seems relevant.  An initial condition of r(2n)=n is no help but we do know that the first step (up to color switch) takes us from (n,2n) to (n-1,2n-1) and with that as an initial condition I get r(t)=(t^2-2n+1)(2t). Then solving r(t)=0 for t yields $\sqrt{2n-1}.$  The numerical  data does seem higher than this though.</p>
<p>As I final note, this reminds me of the amazing article The Toilet Paper problem by Donald Knuth October 1984 in the American Mathematical monthly <a href="http://www.jstor.org/stable/2322567" rel="nofollow">http://www.jstor.org/stable/2322567</a>.<br />
Two kinds of people, one who always removes the majority color and one who always removes the minority color are represented in ratio p:1-p  If we start out with n of each color , how many will be left when one color is depleted? I was mildly scandalized that the problem story involves big choosers and little choosers who take a square of toilet paper from one of two available rolls in a certain stall. So that&#039;s what they mean by applied math! The math is breathtaking as well and maybe there are ideas to exploit.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Answer: Lord Kelvin, The Age of the Earth, and the Age of the Sun by Gil Kalai</title>
		<link>http://gilkalai.wordpress.com/2013/05/12/answer-lord-kelvin-the-age-of-the-earth-and-the-age-of-the-sun/#comment-9392</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gil Kalai]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 May 2013 15:19:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gilkalai.wordpress.com/?p=10261#comment-9392</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Sergei and Peter. Among the other facets to this story are of course the connection to evolution, that required a much longer age for the earth, and the mathematical models for convection which came much later and were closely related to the debate regarding continental drifts. Yeshu mentioned Chaim Leib Pekeris among those who developed mathematical models for  convections.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Sergei and Peter. Among the other facets to this story are of course the connection to evolution, that required a much longer age for the earth, and the mathematical models for convection which came much later and were closely related to the debate regarding continental drifts. Yeshu mentioned Chaim Leib Pekeris among those who developed mathematical models for  convections.</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Few Slides and a Few Comments From My MIT Lecture on Quantum Computers by Gil Kalai</title>
		<link>http://gilkalai.wordpress.com/2013/03/13/a-few-slides-and-a-few-comments-from-my-mit-lecture-on-quantum-computers/#comment-9388</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gil Kalai]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 May 2013 05:47:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gilkalai.wordpress.com/?p=9667#comment-9388</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;The source of noise in quantum physics can generally be deduced from the laws of quantum physics, and I don’t see how the laws of quantum physics allow for SLE noise.&quot;

Peter, I think that here you go back to the implicit assumption of having a general purpose quantum device. There, modeling the noise (or risks of failure if you wish) can be fairly restricted. But if you want to express, in the language of quantum probability, the way your noise depends on the quantum device that carries the computation then the laws for the noise can be more involved.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The source of noise in quantum physics can generally be deduced from the laws of quantum physics, and I don’t see how the laws of quantum physics allow for SLE noise.&#8221;</p>
<p>Peter, I think that here you go back to the implicit assumption of having a general purpose quantum device. There, modeling the noise (or risks of failure if you wish) can be fairly restricted. But if you want to express, in the language of quantum probability, the way your noise depends on the quantum device that carries the computation then the laws for the noise can be more involved.</p>
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